#023: A European View of Analytics with Matthias Bettag

From a sophisticated analysis of the names and timestamps of many of our commenters, we discovered something that surprised us: digital analytics is a profession that is practiced outside of North America! This fact blew our minds, but ,curious analytics types that we are, we set to work finding someone with whom we could chat about digital analytics in Europe…and found Matthias Bettag. Join us for 47 minutes (that’s 47 minutes in metric) discussing the subject.

People, places, and things reference in this episode include:


Episode Transcript

The following is a straight-up machine translation. It has not been human-reviewed or human-corrected. We apologize on behalf of the machines for any text that winds up being incorrect, nonsensical, or offensive. We have asked the machine to do better, but it simply responds with, “I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.”

[00:00:24] Hello everyone. Welcome to the digital analytics power hour.

[00:00:28] This is Episode 23. Hey all you listeners out there.

[00:00:34] Come fly with me over the sea to a place full of history. That’s right. I’m talking about Europe or the EU or whatever but it’s all those countries over there where a lot of us in America came from. They also do analytics over there and we have a lot of listeners. And so we became interested who could help us understand the landscape what’s going on over there. And so of course my two cohosting I started thinking about that I want to introduce Tim Wilson so excited to have Angela Merkel on it. And Jim Kane who is sort of like being in Europe in that Ottawa is sort of a European city we’re coming off God Save the Queen and all that hand out. So we have with us today a guest from the EU Matyas Bettag who is someone we’ve known for a little while and is a digital analytics consultant. He’s in Berlin Germany and he’s the country manager there as well as he runs an analytics conference called the Digital Analytics hub that came out of the Exchange Conference from when he was with symphonic here in the States. Prior to that he was also with Bayer so has a long history in the digital analytics community someone with a passion for our industry. So Mathias welcome to the podcast everybody. Better to be here for you guys so we’re excited. I’m excited. Tim Wilson is usually stony faced didn’t you know whatever.

[00:02:14] But this is so interesting because you know of course we understand the context of digital analytics pretty well here in the United States but there are many differences and many peculiarities for digital analytics that are quite different.

[00:02:29] So maybe you’ll start off with a question How are things in the EU for analytics really broad enough. Here’s my first question. Tell me all of it.

[00:02:44] So things are going well. I would say I see big developments. I’m I’m happy to be on the other side because the demand is so high that actually acquisition is not really a big topic. There are a lot of movement. It’s actually quite interesting we we will probably talk about that a different set of tools probably a bigger variety even in the high end market on the same side we are fragmented in some ways so it’s not like there is no European language as I once.

[00:03:16] So there is of course a different different way of how the community and all the different countries is connected to each other. There are international events no question. So I was with Michael Feinstein UK for the International Digital Analytics up and that we have some 13 17 different countries people from different countries starting there other events where people can meet. So the camp in London is a great opportunity there local events really small events like Lefty’s something bolding which segment which you have two people right. You have the one people who are good at the analytics you have other people who are good at bowling. And then there is a small fraction which applies for both. So this is a funny event which goes over 24 30 cities every quarter.

[00:04:03] So it is intersexual building things are building up but you can’t really compare it to the same way as it has been developing in the U.S. since. Well I follow it since 2007.

[00:04:14] Yeah it was founded in 2004. I guess having one I call me one language what currency makes it easier to have a bigger market. Blue well what connected to each of us.

[00:04:26] Well this is a major difference I’d say.

[00:04:28] Do you find a country by country. There are distinctions in terms of sophistication and usage of tools those kinds of things.

[00:04:37] There are quite a few differences but it’s not always by the country. It’s not that some countries are the smarter analytics than others.

[00:04:45] I will say that you find the whole pother everywhere of course in a bigger market like UK or Germany you have yet to find a few couple of big companies doing quite well having a much broader of people being involved in that business certainly there are differences but this is also in the in the in the total economy between northern and southern Europe their differences and Eastern Europe is again another piece on itself. So there are also some tools out there in Eastern Europe and it continuous by Russia and even China which is no more Europe just one of them where you have some friends that you’re not in and haven’t.

[00:05:28] And Angela told me not to disclose that.

[00:05:31] No but I was with or something but I was just asked this week what what is probably the number three tool in the world after the two big ones. We all know and I said I don’t know maybe this a Chinese company. We don’t know yet. So there are certainly things happening which I’m not really aware from Germany which is more West a lot and to some extent countries where I see big analytics involvement and people joining each other having some community. Certainly the U.K. Germany Belgium Netherlands Spain France Poland Czech Republic Italy it’s less icy which doesn’t mean it’s early days.

[00:06:09] And then of course the Nordics from Sweden Norway Denmark.

[00:06:15] So it’s quite a lot of roles and quite a lot.

[00:06:18] I have not yet seen because we we can’t be everywhere. Not everybody is fairly well.

[00:06:23] So some stuff remains like an island.

[00:06:25] Here’s my big question about Europe and North America people exclusively think about the final countdown. But I actually think that Kerry was a better song. It charted top ten. It was one of my favorite power balance.

[00:06:39] But you know another fellow called the workers the other way.

[00:06:44] Kerry was there their top ten hits you and I’m talking about you might you might want to sing a few bars from Jim. You can’t hit the high notes and tight had a lot of coffee. So the actual question I had is and you were touching on it so this is something I think especially for North American practitioners. You’ve got maybe some metrics and some wet trends kind of legacy practitioners out there but right now you have Adobe chops and Google Analytics chops your ability to be a solid analyst tools use wise is pretty covered. But in Germany the number one player I believe is web track. The internet has a huge piece of the French market and you’ve got your next Mattrick in Russia. How many tools to be an enterprise grade when analyzed how many tools do you need to be comfortable with to kind of start to move around and say Don’t worry I got it Mike on your resume or maybe even a flip side like how many are you personally feeling like you span across. I can tell you I currently have plans working with HP Internet Web Adobe Google all the way on standard.

[00:07:46] Premium much less. We can talk about that too. But it’s not like we have these two major tools like Google premium and Adobe on the high end market which basically share the entire market. Websense called metrics getting more and more rare Westrick is a strong player in Germany but not as strong as a Dobias right.

[00:08:05] So it’s it’s hard to say because I know some stats about to comparison. So overall that might be quite equal.

[00:08:13] Adobe and Web traffic actually also web track is evolving quite well I guess the engine is really powerful. So it comes somewhat close to what Adobe can do in the entire suite.

[00:08:24] It’s a few I would make a difference between if you have to work in the tool or if you’re more GYEM basically on the strategic methodological side. So I need to know what the tool can do and what it can do and need to figure out what growth could wear and which interfaces might work best but it’s not necessarily that I need to know the deep core tool for each of my clients because usually I have other people who are specialists in the toolmaking but it seems like it’s it’s interesting that Adobe in google and you touched on it you said Web track is continuing to kind of innovate and grow.

[00:09:01] Because I look at Adobe and GA are both continuing to evolve because they are chasing each other and it’s a perfect storm for innovation and competition. It’s only going to be more perfect it seems like when you’ve got other platforms like web track that’s also chasing it. Can you imagine a world where one of those kind of currently strong player in Europe actually jumps across the Atlantic and emerges in the U.S.. I mean maybe that’s a unfair question to ask but is a oh yes it has been a.

[00:09:37] I would not expect in the near future that a tool would more or less take over or become a significant market share because that would this is also a cultural thing right. So I know quite a few companies who or which might be quite thick but they’re still on the domestic market because that’s a German publisher or whatever insurance or bank which has some some countries but it’s not a global player.

[00:10:02] They may choose a tool also from the support side and if support is locally available that counts higher than being the world market leader 80 Internet right around the time the day rebranded with the new name put a significant amount of effort into breaking to come back which is where I’m from.

[00:10:19] And I think they got a couple of them because again there was a French language user experience. They were able to go to some of the key brands in the in the Quebec market. I think they got a little bit of adoption but they were going to use that as a springboard into the rest of North America and they were unable to pull it off. I know also maybe it’s different now but Hugo Boss America is a Web tracker shop specifically because you know headquarters is. You know so I would wonder how many kind of Tier 1 European brands are kind of bringing their tools with them. And as an extension to that I wonder if European analysts then have to use a lot of tools or a little bit better at qualitative analysis because you can’t just go I always click these three buttons to answer my question. You really need to formulate a solid hypothesis before you go into the tool.

[00:11:10] Second FIAC of the moment I can tell you because if I have an idea which is basically easy to well it’s not complicated thinking but then I hope to make it happen in that particular tool set up. It’s the trust the trust that probably cost us a little more time. There are also quite a few analysts and really smart guys who basically work in their tool universe. So especially Google of course. But also I know few people who are just so pros and Adobe whatsoever if you do either on the on the tool side on the implementation side and they don’t do anything else. I’ve currently even been in contact with Spivack very interesting here moveless coming out because quite a few companies with very strong researches consider Pippig as a built in premise tool and then they start building their plugins using the open source to their services. So this is a totally different approach. So there are quite a few areas where you can totally stick was one tool and not getting bored. I’d say from my perspective we’re more into SATIJA comes out and see I have to deal with what the other companies have.

[00:12:18] And sometimes it’s also my role to guide them through a NewPage or recommending additional tools. What they have already and then it’s getting interesting.

[00:12:28] AGM genetics actually sorry just to continue taking it because the Internet also like these two very much as well and clearly I think they own some 70 80 percent of the French market. So it’s incredible how strong that France. And that explains why they go to Quebec French speaking as well. They have a very fair stake in Germany as well. They have grown fast. So maybe for them it’s less a tool but the resources they need to get with a growing business.

[00:12:54] Just a guess but there are so many components which may allow you to take another market and be successful that over time that I wouldn’t use it to the tune functionality and power itself. So I would say support is probably a very strong. And then making the right sales at the right places you can get lost in.

[00:13:12] And then waste a lot of money without thinking that way.

[00:13:16] The internet should just start telling North Americans that they can do training at headquarters in Bordeaux.

[00:13:22] They will probably. So it should be quite interesting photographic people as well. So they they should do that.

[00:13:31] They should use the local cop from the higher plane.

[00:13:33] Is there a local.

[00:13:35] I don’t think we want to go to too far down into the privacy world but is there I feel like the North America headquartered companies have a tendency to try to kind of stick their heads in the sand a little bit and say you know it’s kind of up to you the company to comply with any privacy regulations and because it’s just so complicated and dynamic and changing. We feel like in North America we are really struggling to understand UK Germany the EU and that that’s shifting landscape and it seems like for analytics platform that is based in the heart of that and is probably kind of more is more dealing with the shifting currents and potentially could could be could have a better answer and expertise and support that potentially could be hey you know what if you use web track they really do understand privacy implications and they’re on top of it and they’re going to help you be compliant and answer any queries and questions that come in. And I don’t know that’s one of those like theoretically that could be a case but I don’t know if in practice that’s that’s a reality.

[00:14:51] The vendors claim that there are privacy complying we have like kind of an industry standard vacation. It’s not a company with don’t ask me how it’s like. Like an association to have tickly go take the whole fine. And so you tools can get certified but that is I’m not a lawyer right. Don’t get me wrong but it’s like a cop can prove that the brakes are fine. That does not necessarily mean that the brakes will be used when you need to take them. So using a tool is always you’re always as a dot controller as a user who implements a tool the user who uses a tool for purposes. So it’s always that data control aside where you have certain responsibilities like not driving with solid marks and are in a kindergarden backyard or something there is very good Volkswagen joke and everything you just said by the way.

[00:15:44] I knew somebody was going to bring that.

[00:15:47] And then on the other end we struggle also because it’s difficult to understand all the neat needed details. And what may not apply in in which circumstances. And of course this is very hard for American companies to understand one thing which is not necessarily privacy you know. But this is what clearly is in question by the Safe Harbor Decision is that data ownership and by this data storage needs to be reconsidered. If you were relying on U.S. based system from Europe and that is certainly an advantage for those players who have their clouds in that country or in Europe at least and can make sure it can scale it up to the needs of the client. The same happens by the way because of other reasons in Russia and China and probably more countries where the governments decide that that data of citizens of that country needs to stay in the country. And so I think there will be a diversity evasion of the cloud which never was pretty in the cloud was always and still is so that these platforms these these server farms need to be properly better be adjusted by by the clients who who use it.

[00:16:58] But that’s just I hadn’t even thought of. So you’re saying that because if you’re saying everything it’s all or stops in the cloud the cloud like you said is nebulous that is a term is nebulous but for companies for analytics providers that can say yes but we can track that the cloud the actual physical servers in this cloud are located in Berlin and Munich and we will make sure that that is what gets used for storage. The

[00:17:27] data to the large to the Amazon cloud the uber kind of professional cloud do they support that.

[00:17:35] Yes quite a few services rely on some clouds. And as far as I know I’m not a server configuration but if I’m I know you can scale it pretty well are are limited to two countries because the background of this decision was that the safe harbor agreement is totally under run overrun by Patriot Act and some of the other things.

[00:17:54] And this is not really new. We all knew it’s more than 10 years. This is basically the case only was never officially stated in a court decision from that level. So of course yes that needs to be guaranteed. And we know that this particular problem of data being spied out by secret services is happening. Even our clouts our services so whatsoever. But this is a legal requirement for companies probably have to sing Where Is My data literally where is it and how do I really have control of it. It’s deletion of data really a deletion it’s only disabling and it pops up somewhere else. And these approaches these which will consider a few fresh thinking will have that problem.

[00:18:36] Does that include an. And now I’m going to treat you as a server configuration and a lawyer neither of which you are but how the data actually gets there right. I mean the data is ultimately traveling over the Internet in a way that is largely uncontrollable like if a major pipe goes down in and you know the magic of the Internet will just find its way. So it seems like it’s conceivable that you may be a user in Germany visiting a site that’s in Germany and your data is stored in Germany but there’s nowhere that’s locked up from now you’re visiting Germany aside from the U.S. where the data stored in Germany and then your daughter has to make the way to Germany or some extent and it may it may go through France on the way there.

[00:19:22] I mean there’s we don’t know.

[00:19:24] Yeah exactly I don’t think this will be very good question. Haven’t thought of that this week. I don’t I basically don’t know what this is. This is controlled. I think TCAP IP is still up and running.

[00:19:37] But yeah.

[00:19:40] Wow. So basically. So we have several issues because privacy is more or less. Wiped out as you collect for which proposed do you inform the people you have that concerned. And then if you have all of this and you do it in a transparent and fair way then you can do it. But if you’re collecting their shoe size of someone who is trying to fill out a newsletter registration then there is no real connection for that except maybe your suseela and you want to sell them something that’s so bad that there’s always a Caltech’s between what you want what is the proposed and then you get content for that and that the different process in Europe and in the U.S. really in a nutshell which is also not established equally all over the different countries because there are still some differences but quite a few European sites if you visit them you have these opt in checkboxes for the Cyclopes.

[00:20:34] Can I ask you guys a question about API and it’s actually it’s got nothing to do with Europe. It’s just it’s an interesting question I’ve been struggling with. So let’s say I have a website that wants to capture height and weight data in something like a Google Analytics it’s completely locked down for API. But I don’t have anything else at the user level other than I guess IP address that would give you any kind like take no credit card no name no address but height weight IP address.

[00:21:02] So for any any listener who were sorting through an API that’s personally identifiable information which a lot of people most analysts are familiar with is that there is no authority which states what exactly is that quite a few different interpretations from it.

[00:21:18] If you talk to a data protection office he would say that anonymous stopped as we consider Anonymous is often only plodder them as meaning we have a cookie Id always have any kind of of key to understand a visit and maybe following visits even though we don’t really know if that was me or you or anyone else. But in certain circumstances this can be tied together and suddenly you have a clear person in mind or in scope.

[00:21:45] So think of a small village where you have one doctor and somebody is entering the fact that you house a Ph.D. then it’s clear it’s hair right and all you need is a geolocation. And the fact that he has a title to make up one example of this is where you really have to go in the nitty gritty by the proposed by the business and if you need it or not of course I have to give my address if I want someone to send me a parcel. So this is implied consent. Other stuff isn’t.

[00:22:13] So this is a big discussion where you really need to be careful. You have to think of the individual requirements and real needs and maybe you have two or three tiers of importance of sensitive data levels right and then I have to approach it.

[00:22:28] All right let’s shift gears here. Let’s talk we talked a little bit about the tools and about some of the state of sort of regulation but let’s talk about the people analytics people in the U.S. tend to come up a certain way there’s a path for them there’s ways that they can get educated. We’ve talked about some of those things on the show. How is that happening in the EU. How would someone who wanted to become an analyst or get into a field in the field of digital analytics. What resources are they or how should they approach the industry. How did you get into digital analytics and is that common or is your story the way that everyone should do it.

[00:23:04] I don’t think that I’m representative of so I was a nurse working in that difficult unit before I decided to do something very different. I stumbled into media Computer Science study on the University of Applied Science in Berlin and initially I thought it’s kind of something which cool graphic design and I may end up by by doing supercool postcard selling them to Japanese tourists so that was my thinking in the late 90s for maybe a few weeks until I figured out this heavy math programming which I was buying into with less blood and urine though right.

[00:23:40] Yeah it was cleaner. I must say.

[00:23:42] And also let’s say I had way more time to play and we told element in Quake story and stuff while I had no nightshifts that in my hypothetical was my plan.

[00:23:54] And of course the television choices that are absolutely yeah absolutely. So yeah blood was only on the screen not on my hands.

[00:24:02] That’s actually interesting line yeah. This was my story how I went. Well first of all into computer science and then from there because I was nervous before my first job was actually clinical data management where they were happy to have somebody who understood the data from a standpoint of I could do my own corroborees to get myself together and my reports. But I could also evaluate the data because it had a medical background if it sounded reasonable or if there were any open questions and the like would raise the questions like hey this guy has a different blood pressure was in two days in a row without anything happening. Is that a typo or whatsoever.

[00:24:39] So this was my very first job and a year later I changed and became a webmaster at the pharma company Schering which was later bought by Bayer and I was working on the content management system and I did these Web sites. HP MLP HP my school and I figured out that technical Effiong was lacking all over the place. So I did them clean and you see us as a youth. I was a total HDL not guy right. I wanted to have everything totally SPRIX HDMI are compatible. I love all these validation tools to make sure everything is smooth and fine and well separated content from design and functionality. And then I got C’s role on the global marketing department which was consulting. After the merger of Bain and sharing all the different countries and business units into different regions of the earth to while to migrate all there are hundreds and hundreds of upside to a big international platform. And this was a point where I first looked into the data really. I did that as a webmaster before. But instead of thinking how much workload does it cost us to switch to a program website to a ph preprogram website. I was always looking in the dot printable to understand if the site was successful and then we switched it a lot and maybe we switched it. But then with some optimizations. So I was I was trying to find a qualitative key to understand if migration made sense or if this is something optative was thinking about.

[00:26:06] And this is combined with these very nice federal budget I had on these international role and I was flying north and south America and Asia Europe all the way how I got in contact with all these interesting folks in the U.S. are the metrics for instance or how I also met Gary Angell on the exchange. Eric pietism you name it. So it was it was a great opportunity for me in the mid mid 2000s to get in touch with these people to get the supercute for really that all my problems are quite common. So I was not the only one and trying to find the Holy Grail but that was just difficult. And the whole industry was looking to get certain things done well and better. So this was my story right and I see all the different stories of people of my age how they came to analytics there is no proper line and they are really really quite a few that is actually a question you pose on your own people what was the former first or second thought they had.

[00:27:05] So I met quite interesting.

[00:27:06] It’s crazy. I mean most of them actually started in nursing. Yes that’s the orange thing. There’s one common thread now.

[00:27:13] It’s actually really in my mind. This is so smart so yeah but but we have for education.

[00:27:22] This is a huge topic and this is one reason why that Germany was was founded as propa own country because it is so superhigh. And we do use the UBC cause we have to deal with the and German actually have German. So the applications are in German and the but the content the main content is still in English but people use it.

[00:27:41] And I am one of the tutors for the coup for it for the course in Germany.

[00:27:47] So we don’t know we have two or three courses per year was up to 20 25 people and so that’s actually and it’s it’s developing well there are no real full education say like a university saying I teach analytics but that comes from all the different and so it’s getting better but I still don’t see something like a digital analytics master class with just more like only one semester are in addition to some studies.

[00:28:15] That is something that it kind of leads to a question that I wanted to ask and by the way this could be the first show ever that we don’t have to use the explicit tag for it so yes you must be a positive influence here but I actually spoke at a conference in Russia from about measurement about a year ago this week I think and one of the things that came up because there were a number of analysts from in Europe as well who were there to speak and things like that and it seemed to be a little bit of an inferiority complex around the. That’s not a talent but the skills and the business practices and the best practices in Europe for measurement versus what we’re doing in North America and I imagine a lot of questions. And I really didn’t see that discrepancy. I could certainly hear it from people when I spoke to them. When you’re at conferences do you hear a lot of people saying we need to keep up with North America. We need deeds. And if so do you think that that’s valid in any area. Because I really did see it.

[00:29:12] Yes good question. So one thing I stopped was ranting. I see so many people claiming analytics as well but they’re not claiming that this is just the way they think and they do it and they do basically General analytics right. So it’s often analytics is taken as a purely marketing channel even marketing channel optimization. Right. And I think that’s a huge lack in onsite analytics where where you actually know your customers and your own platform right. And that is a very very important part of the of the entire picture. And of course all the channels come in and the traffic drivers with these people. But I always struggled with the approaches where analytics is considered as a playing more or less pay per click analytics and nothing else counts right. And then you have these super bowl ad budgets for all the retargeted affiliates display advertisers who all have their tools and systems and then you have a fraction of maybe I don’t know tens or hundreds of data.

[00:30:14] For those who do go online on site Latics.

[00:30:17] So this is this is something where at least when I was working for symphonic who were doing almost entirely very strong Alcide politics frameworks and researches and analyzing this whole stuff and that is something where I see big room for improvement in Europe only that my experience I have it’s funny is probably also not representative of your health.

[00:30:39] So it’s where you begin if you’re if you’re you’re taking the work that symphonic did and trying to say making an assumption that that’s how most North American companies operate from a sophistication level than I think it is the arrogant Americans who have have won by being pretentious because what you are what you describe seems like what to me. A lot of companies are saying where are we spending our media budget. And that’s how much traffic is that sending and not so much the onside. I think that’s why I mean how does a b testing fall. I mean it’s one of those it’s such a simple story. Every analyst thinks we should be testing all the time but the number of organizations that really are you know have a robust optimistic it integrated into please and not someone else doing that in the on the testing that where the analytics team there on the testing team.

[00:31:36] Yeah yeah yeah I mean I would be happy if we have two teams where you have an analyst here or close to two herd the cats to quote Jim Stern and you have a testing team which has five people testing these crazy web page which has seven visits a day to make it eight.

[00:31:51] I’m getting me now.

[00:31:52] But it’s I see a lot of fragmentation here it’s not only about testing we’re not yet there. Where I see and this is also something which extends not only by symphonic but also by the metrics of exchanges I’ve been visiting in the U.S. just still happen in their lives it’s demystified it’s clearly in that market so you have plenty of stories to tell. You have quite a few broader companies bigger companies who are doing really sophisticated stuff and seriously feel better right wherever they are and because they make progress and they really mean it. It’s not a bottom up approach by luck or something. And this is something that is less strong in Europe even though it’s evolving and some people get it and some people get it to the withdrawal and some just don’t get it because they just look at the play number and if they sell I don’t know how much on display or actually convinced that the display is a conversion driver. They’ll continue doing that and they would not invest in something else and come up with some sophisticated theory. This is the theory it’s very hard to prove unless they feel like they have pain. Right. And that’s less and unless you do the onsite Analytics. Well you will not identify the right bottlenecks or friction drivers whatsoever you have per segment and go which you have which which you can take in an average. So all these framework would provide your contextual insights at a glance. And from there you can raise questions and evaluate the parties and do it better or fail to get into it another time better.

[00:33:19] This is not that common. I will say.

[00:33:23] We have seen results of the two markets. How many tools are there and how much of these tools are relying on dashboard voting right means collecting all these different data sources to have an overview of how many of these tools are doing different levels of the IWAY it’s all evolved the pay channels in detail and more detail and real time. I don’t see really popping up new analytics tools which helps you building up a visit off right. That’s a different story.

[00:33:50] I feel like there are a lot of companies that are telling that story but you look at them and say wait your two guys who were in college a year ago I’m not sure that’s going to be the solution for the.

[00:33:59] And also they use the same terms they say analytics as a return of investment they say convergence. I mean this is it’s not wrong. Right. But it’s difficult. As you know you would be whatever the level at the mid mid level company and you understand you need some of the optics and you start to link them where you end up. Right. I’ve seen even even these questions being ending up at the old company because they are understood they can do traffic and then that’s it. Right. And the company does propria significant drop in Atheel but they never have about a visit or framework on site. So this is where I think analytics is in a weaker position because we’re kind of still somewhat nerdy somewhat neech somewhat. Yeah there’s the look story to Impala evap and you can make a benefit. Otherwise I’d rather stick with what I can.

[00:34:50] Kind of thinking. On

[00:34:51] the other hand I see a lot of big companies from agencies like full service creative PR that T.J. on the one hand and also from the really paid channel media service and both seek the way. If you think of the media and all the traffic agencies as I call them on one hand and on the other hand you have the big strategic ones doing all the big framework for the consulting super big plans and multiples of them at all and that cascades down and hundreds and thousands of teams and in the middle you have the pure analysts as we are and I get I get requests from all of the places where because I have understood they need to understand this way too if they want to continue providing full service it’s not a lot tell them the click through rates and some Cuadros.

[00:35:39] So when I get ask because it is do you think they’re saying yes we need to use the data so that we can understand this and be better which is kind of the what you’d hope. Or is it we need to have a data we need to have an analytics offering because that’s more share of wallet. We could get more money we can extract from our clients if we sell analytic services if we’re going to claim to be full service then. Oh this is another offering we need to have. And let’s ignore the fact that now we’re going to claim that as a traffic agency we are now going to be measuring our own performance. And you know anybody who just steps back like two meters and says oh wait a minute. So you’re both going to do the work for me and you’re going to charge me to tell me how well or poorly you’re doing. I guess that’s that’s my cynical view of of the structural issue with agencies that aren’t objective you know analytics that.

[00:36:37] I mean you are always at risk if you let somebody who spends your money measure it at the same time and this is certainly possible because not everybody is in the Frogmore fold but it’s risky I would say. Sometimes it’s just the case how it works. And they they may not do a good job. So I think you’re you’re right there are quite a few companies who just claim to do analytics because this is what the client expects and then. They get some reports of course. Generally I see companies also approaching me are people less me because they want to learn. They want to understand those are really meaning it. And this is this is actually a good sign. I also see these strategic companies who after they want to pitch call up freelancers and other independents to get on board. And this is clearly something where they want to pitch without being transparent. The that they have. But clearly this shows that and politics gets more and more to scope from a requirement perspective also by the client. So it’s not enough to solve the law question is really do you want the money spender say to her.

[00:37:41] It’s all success and performance. But that’s that’s a question have for many levels. There are different ways to fall.

[00:37:48] That’s great. So unfortunately we have to start the wrap up process but this conversation is obviously one that could go on and on. So thank you Mathias. You know and obviously if you’re listening and you’re an ICU nurse looking for more video game time this is the show for you. No I just I love it. I love where everybody comes from. And obviously over the years that I’ve known you your passion for this industry is something that I’ve really come to appreciate. So let’s go around the horn guys. What were some things that you either learned today or thought were interesting about sort of this juxtaposition or conversation we’re having about the EU.

[00:38:34] So I just like this one because I had met Machias before him. You’re really good at this stuff.

[00:38:39] You can come back anytime I’m happy as well.

[00:38:45] Yeah well this is another chance for us to do a live analytics power hour at your event in Europe. I might drag myself to the airport for that.

[00:38:53] Oh please do that. So we just decided that the next stop will be June 7 to 9 north of London. Very nice side so yeah it’ll be cool. And you even from London could be a good season. So you’re welcome.

[00:39:09] Yeah I could be fun. And the other thing I think from today’s show is that we didn’t just talk about the state of measurement in Europe but it really felt like we kind of organically got into a couple of the key topics that European analysts seemed to be talking about specifically the tool ecosystem. I’m API Nene’s I think is well for North American analysts who are listening to this show. The statements we were making earlier about there might be a bit of an inferiority complex in Europe and maybe either the practice for certain things is a little bit behind VII or what customer data and analytics tool means is something that’s being need to be taken seriously in North America right now. And if it’s something that a North American analyst really wants to up their chops on look to Europe start reading blogs from early pol’s and people like yourself Matyas and I have no blog I’m so lazy I’m sorry. So we’ll just post your cell phone number on our Facebook page.

[00:40:06] Oh that’s fine. But it a start up for you call me please. And I will echo that a little bit.

[00:40:15] I definitely one from the explanation of the background. It sounds very very similar to North America that nobody got into this with a full degree. Everyone’s looking and hoping for more and better education to feed the industry with talent. And we’re but we’re seems like we’re still out a ways from when people say I got into this because I got interested in this course in college and continued with that I think from I didn’t take much away from this conversation as there’s any merit whatsoever to an inferiority complex and that’s just Americans being arrogant bastards or restate that that’s just Americans being arrogant fucks.

[00:40:58] So I can now get the explicit tag now that we need one millennials crack and then we’ve got all we can check them all off.

[00:41:05] And I think that the two ecosystem it is one that fascinates me because we immediately forget it. I mean a week from now it’s going to some is going to say something like Oh yeah. It is not just the big two in this whole other continent. It is a major player in the global economy is dealing with this thing that in the state it’s just it’s just those two. And I kind of hope that some of those other companies do manage to sink their tentacles into the into the U.S. because I think it’s is going to be better for the overall evolution of the market although more challenging for analysts to say oh I don’t know enough about two or three different tools. So those were kind of my my takeaways.

[00:41:50] Yeah I’m right there with you. I really like this discussion only because of what I think we can all learn from it and and to have a more global perspective I think is just educational around you know analytics is being done and being done at a pretty high level all over the world.

[00:42:06] Mathias anything I don’t expect that you’ve learned much today but anything going on in your world you want to talk about.

[00:42:14] Let people who listen to the show know about would be happy for you to plug a couple things or whatever you had that you wanted to talk about.

[00:42:22] So it’s time to greet all my friends. There you go. Oh yeah.

[00:42:28] So first I really hope that late in 2016 I can come back to the U.S. at another time.

[00:42:35] So three times a year since your last two years have been there I think that quite a good community events going up in Europe.

[00:42:44] Like I said initially metric laughter opening up big evil conferences. And you said you’re worth a while.

[00:42:52] I heard that the what was that called thing which was in January in Ungarie is going to be in Jamaica this year.

[00:43:01] It was like super something this week.

[00:43:03] Exactly.

[00:43:04] Just a plug for the open Copenhagen will be next Wednesday which was when I was invited there earlier this year and there were some 350 people I was like Wow. Right. Copenhagen has a certain how when I put these we call them the events in Germany 8 8 8 0 late afternoon.

[00:43:25] Again it’s the same track as local chapter of the U.S.. We don’t for the coming competition tax year but to run all of them and do them in different cities is a great way also to catch up with folks of your city doing an Olympics. I think it’s a great time being in that business.

[00:43:44] I really can’t recommend from my own and you don’t get fixed was one tool because that changes so much doesn’t mean care about polls. But it’s always worth to understand it’s an approach is better than which which there are many many many industries like optics markets that we have front runners as you have in the West probably not as many which makes less people being super advanced level. But we have the whole range. We’re developing fast and.

[00:44:15] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:18] Yeah absolutely. Once again Matyas thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us. I think this is going to be a really great opportunity for the folks who listen to our show to get a better education around what’s happening in digital analytics around the world. If you are listening out there and you’ve got questions or you have comments we would love to hear from you. You can find us on our Facebook page Facebook dot com slash analytics our or on Twitter. And of course on the measure slack community which is something that is growing and becoming more global all the time so check us out there ask your questions. Maybe even the great Mathias Tague will come and answer your question and help you get a better understanding of what’s going on and you can’t guarantee it it’s hard to pin down international man of analytics.

[00:45:16] But thanks again for Tim Wilson and Jim Kane. Michael Hellblazer.

[00:45:22] Thanks for listening. And don’t forget to join the conversation on Facebook or Twitter. We welcome your comments and questions Facebook dot com slash and on this next hour or on Twitter. You know how it.

[00:45:41] Works. You represent all of the hopes and dreams of analytics in Europe.

[00:45:50] Would that make your mama Tague manager. Finish your data. They are right to bet. Europeans tend to dress nicer. I think. I might shut the hell out. Oh that’s not true. You know what’s funny is I said you don’t have a dress beforehand but I never said you wouldn’t talk. Now I asked three point one for. A view or listening to this podcast and you don’t know that just get out. Maybe I’ll cut that. It’s not just that it’s trending that is dripping with sarcasm. I’m not doing it. To nice people in Europe. Yeah I see it. Yes we’re going to be great friends.

[00:46:44] ROC flag of Europe.


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