#037: Growing Your Career without Changing Companies

If you’re like most analysts, you’ve probably changed jobs since the last episode of this podcast hit your earbuds two weeks ago. Or, if you haven’t actually changed jobs, then you’ve at least been hounded by recruiters who wish you would. No matter how you look at it, digital analysts have lots of opportunities to bounce between companies at a frequent pace, and many analysts do just that. On this episode, we talk with Dylan Lewis, who has been doing digital analytics at Intuit since before there were federal taxes (give or take a few years). Give it a listen. You just might decide you need a personal board of directors!

If nothing else, this episode might inspire you to check out http://careers.intuit.com, which would be ironic given the topic, but definitely understandable!


Episode Transcript

The following is a straight-up machine translation. It has not been human-reviewed or human-corrected. We apologize on behalf of the machines for any text that winds up being incorrect, nonsensical, or offensive. We have asked the machine to do better, but it simply responds with, “I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.”

[00:00:00] Hi everyone. We’ve been doing this show now for almost a year and a half. It all started because we liked hanging out and talking about what’s going on in our industry. We all have our own work and really busy lives in addition to doing the Power Hour podcast. And this is where the good news bad news starts. The good news is that Jim Kain’s business napkin has been growing very rapidly. The bad news is that it’s not leaving him enough time to continue hosting the digital analytics powerhouse along with Tim and I. Jim we’re really going to miss you.

[00:00:35] Thanks Michael. It is a mutual appreciation society and like you said you know with with two companies that are growing fast I also have three kids. I didn’t have time for war and world class podcasts so. I am very much looking forward to continuing to be part of the podcast but this time on the other side of the floor so talking some smack and slack maybe uploading some inappropriate pictures to the Facebook page but very much being part of the community. But just on the different side of the microphone so it was a fun year and a half. Met a lot of cool people looking forward to continuing to participate again in a different capacity.

[00:01:12] Well you will certainly be missed. Jim and thank you so much for your contributions to the digital analytics power hour.

[00:01:19] Just promise you guys won’t do a super secret. Everything else I said outtakes episode and Willow it’s already in the works. It’s a huge retrospective picture for her. All right. Cheers cheers. Welcome to the digital analytics per.

[00:01:41] 10. Michael and the occasional guest discussing digital analytics issues of the day they live on Facebook at the dot com slash analytics never know the digital analytics.

[00:01:57] Hi everyone. Welcome to the digital analytics power hour.

[00:02:01] This is Episode 37. There’s a lot of talk in the analytics industry about getting a job in the right job once you get one. There’s no shortage of recruiters in bad situations that quickly make you want to look for another one. And the average tenure of a digital analyst is around two years. That’s an awfully short time on this episode. We want to talk about the flip side of that. Who are those strange people in analytics who are actually happy with their jobs and like them for some reason. So we set off on a trek to find the person who’s been working in analytics the longest for one company in the whole country. And I think we found him. Our guest is Dylan Lewis. He’s currently the Director of Analytics and experimentation in the Turbo Tax business unit at into it. Before that he was a visual sign. Oh who really cares. It was so long ago. We’ve been working really hard to get Dylan to come on our show actually for about as long as he’s been into it. So we’re very excited to have you. Dylan welcome to the power hour. Thanks Michael I appreciate it. Great. And also joining us my other host Tim Wilson senior partner at analytics demystified. Hello Tim. Hi guys. And as always I’m Michael hobbling from search discovery. Dylan welcome to the show. Let’s kick it off with the question. What’s the secret of your longevity.

[00:03:33] How do you stick it out of the same company and not get sucked into other companies and all the cool things that they’re doing that they definitely probably want to hire you for.

[00:03:43] The interesting question. You know other jobs come across my desk and across my phone a lot and it’s always interesting to see what it is that people are touting as what’s available out there. I’ve seen enough people leave into it and leave other companies and find out that the grass really isn’t greener. And so it’s one of those things where you really have to pressure test and see if what it is that’s being said is really what it is and that’s able to be delivered on. And you also have to look at your own surroundings and say hey how do I make this better. How do I make this the best situation that I can possibly be given where I’m at. And given what it is that I want to accomplish I’ve got friends who you can set your watch by when they will actually be leading CMA conferences and they go Oh it’s been two years now you’re about ready for a new one aren’t you. I just I wonder about what kind of impact that you can have on an organization after two years the first year you’re really trying to figure out exactly how the organization runs and once you get to that 12 month mark you’re now over the the year lap and you’ll actually be able to make a bigger impact that way. And so after another year you really haven’t had the ability to really set your mark there. And so I wonder about the people that are flipping every two years like what it is that they’re able to accomplish and each one of their positions.

[00:04:49] Well and I think honestly that’s probably what drives a lot of people to switch is because they feel like they’re not getting traction and they’re and loose and bailing. And maybe the answer for some people is hold on a little longer to see the fruits of your labor come come forward.

[00:05:09] What were you what were you hired in like what was your role. Dillon when you first joined into it.

[00:05:16] Yeah I was hired into it to be a analyst on the Turbo Tax ICOM marketing site and to help bring about their testing program. And so I was fortunate enough that the person who was there before me didn’t understand how do we think journalists work. And so the analytics were off by a large amount. And so I was able to come in after some other people who were there to help fix that and spend that first year really getting to understand exactly how the marketing website worked there how many of those analyst analytics people that were there when you started are still there and know that organization is not the same.

[00:05:55] Are there are there others who are still around.

[00:05:57] Yeah they’re in different business units now but it’s it’s a completely different company from when I started 11 and a half tax seasons ago.

[00:06:06] That’s you. I was I was a child of a CPA by the way. So I was not parenting for January 1 to April 15th.

[00:06:15] Yeah I’ve definitely worked a tax season or two and it can be can be brutal.

[00:06:21] It’s an interesting life for sure but it’s one of those things that’s really nice because at my company I get to work in taxis and when every minute counts and every customer is coming across the door is really somebody that want to help with their taxes and then after tax season you get ready for the next year. So it’s similar to being a teacher but a little bit more. You’re affecting more people obviously.

[00:06:42] Yeah I think the retail business cycle is not too dissimilar in that you know if you’re working in a retail business you know you’re really focused on holiday season. And most of the years the planning and preparation and execution of that.

[00:06:56] So you still have a back to school and the other does seem like I mean it is a hard annual. I mean is that do you think there’s any part of that that you’ve got kind of a built in high intensity cycle followed by a little bit of a more slower period that that actually kind of makes it where you’re not getting sucked into the the humdrum.

[00:07:17] There’s kind of a big sigh of relief and now how do we shift and rejigger. So you’re kind of somewhat starting anew on a fair you defined cycle where the entire company is kind of hitting a reset or what’s next.

[00:07:32] Yeah I think that’s one of the things that I really like about this issue and this company that I work at is because we get a chance to look back right now and figure out exactly what happened and and try to make it better for next year. So it’s really really an amazing opportunity to make things better every single year and to see an impact every single year. And it’s not something that you get if you’re slugging away at reports every week for year over year. You don’t get that chance to figure out how to make it better and in a way that you can be demonstrably different and that’s what I really love.

[00:08:04] So I mean you said the company is different is a totally different company than it was a decade ago. And the longest I’ve ever been at one company is eight years but I always kind of say I came in as a technical writer and I left as the manager of the business intelligence group. So even in that eight years I was maybe on roughly a two year cycle where my job shifted it was always an evolution. How much is your obviously grown professionally learned and gotten more skills. But

[00:08:36] if you break down that ten and a half years do you see that is really one continuum or is it you’ve really had two or three or four very distinct and different jobs along the way.

[00:08:50] I’d say that every year is actually pretty different from the other tax season makes brings about different changes but then actually the focus of what it is that I’m working on or what it is that the analytics team is working on is actually very different. We have the same type of tenants for tax analysts and that you have to be able to dive in and get the data. If you have to get insights out of that data and you have to help persuade the team the experience teams on how to make a better experience. But when it does that we’re focused on and what it is that we get to really dive into is different every tax season. So it’s like having 11 different roles basically the name the name on my paycheck has been into it the entire time but I’ve had multiple different roles and so maybe I’m one of those people who is at the same company that actually gets different jobs in that company and maybe that might be part of the secretive reasons why I’m actually staying at the same company all the time.

[00:09:39] Wow I wonder how much of that is how much of that is the nature of the company or the industry. Because that’s the company I was at was not anywhere near that level of cyclical. The industry wasn’t changing nearly as rapidly as I was kind of evolving into different roles but it was a company that was geared towards you know moving things around and that was honestly where I was sort of finding my way from one profession into the analytics profession. And I was really only a couple roles within analytics but I do feel like I work with some of my clients where it is much more kind of the same the same thing day in and day out. Not that there isn’t an opportunity for them to push themselves and grow their careers but you know they wind up in a in a organization that has much more sort of stability and maybe is not being challenged by external forces or you know doesn’t you know maybe they’re dominant in the market all you guys are dominant in the market.

[00:10:43] And I don’t think it’s necessarily you know competitive pressure that’s making things different every year. I’m sure there’s for whoever’s reviewing this on the Intuit side. I have no idea about the inside workings of your business but I wonder if there’s something about the environment that you’re in that you’re things are continuing to stay fresh and new even as you’re getting deeper and deeper knowledge of the business and you know if those go hand in hand I think it’s part of the company culture too.

[00:11:13] Right. I mean we’re a company that’s never satisfied with the status quo it’s a healthy dissatisfaction and we’re always looking to get better and work with a bunch of learners basically that are that are out there trying to make it so that we get better every single every single year and every single week. And that’s one of the things I really like about Intuit is that it is one of those places where you’re going to get to work with some pretty amazing large scale programs but you also get to work in a place where you get to get better every single year and feedback is something that we work not only in our programs but also with our employees and with everybody so you’re always working on something you’re always working to get better which is actually pretty pretty amazing when you look at how some people work in other companies where it isn’t that way where you’re going to do a job and you’re getting your job done. But this isn’t just a job it’s also your learning and growing your skills and making it so that you’re making the analytics relevant in your area and that customer experience developers in your area I’m smarter about the customers are smarter about how to make things better which is pretty cool.

[00:12:14] So it sounds like there’s something to the shape of the company and the way that the entire company operates. When you describe it that way that lends itself to making it continuously be interesting for an analyst right. Because I think all of us as analysts we want to continue to improve we want to grow our skill set and we want to be challenged. And so I think it’s almost like endemic to the culture maybe even is how you’re describing it. Yeah absolutely. That’s interesting. It’s something it’s interesting. Well let me ask this question.

[00:12:50] Certainly throughout your journey there it cannot have been all things just working super great all the time. How did you deal with kind of those challenges pitfalls. Things that would normally in another situation make you be more or less open to the idea of looking for an opportunity or you know answering one of those LinkedIn emails you get from a recruiter every week you know in other words like what keeps you from doing that or what makes you more or less susceptible like what was what was happening for you along the way.

[00:13:25] You know it’s not always rosy it’s it’s you know you have your challenges and your current working and you have your challenges along the way. I think it’s one of those things when you have to really think about what it is that you want to get done what it is that you could be getting done someplace else. And you know there’s choices that you have to make. Do you want to make a choice to go and jump in live and live in San Diego and it’s pretty amazing that was San Diego. And I’m pretty excited about here. I grew up here. But I know there’s no shortage of calls it happened for me and many of the people that work on our teams to go jump to the Bay Area and go travel from one company has an X and it’s one of those things you have to look at those opportunities and say well is the grass really greener. And I’ve watched enough people leave and then come back and then sometimes leave again because it’s it looks greener and sometimes it actually is greener. But I think it’s one of those things where you have to figure out is it the right move for you. And right now the company that I got into it is just the right company for me to be today. And it’s one of those things where I’m constantly learning and figuring out how I can make myself better at how I can become a better employee and how I can help other analysts become better analysts and that’s something that I would love to do.

[00:14:37] And I get to do that a lot which is great.

[00:14:39] I think that’s cool. It’s interesting the way you describe that. That’s basically how I feel about my job right now search discovery which I have never felt before.

[00:14:48] Is that search every dark slashed careers there.

[00:14:51] Yeah. No but I’m just saying like they’ve got to start that a redirect of the actual one is yeah right. No.

[00:15:00] No but seriously in my career I’ve done a lot of hopping like I’ve always stayed the same place. I think I’ve only been at surf discovery for three and a half years now. But that’s actually now tied with the longest I’ve ever been at any company in my career and I have no reason why I’ll ever leave. But it’s because what you just said there’s ways for me to get better. And I know and it’s worth being there. Anyways it’s interesting because it’s like if you make the company right it really is a great it can be a great place for analysts and they’ll want to stay.

[00:15:34] And not everybody you know certain companies are great places for certain people and you know into it is not for everybody not everybody there is stays there forever. But it is one of those companies where it is it is a special place right. And so it’s something that you have to find the right fit and you have to figure out what are the company values. The founder that’s there the the board of directors like do they fit and your boss and your boss’s boss do they fit your values. They fit your way of operating and is one of those things that you can you can see yourself being there for five or 10 or 15 years.

[00:16:09] Seems like the sort of thing it’s an easy. I don’t think it’s right to say oh well Dylan just kind of magically found the.

[00:16:18] Great fit. There’s no magic. So let me just tell you really great. I read this small company called smartphone icon which is here in San Diego. And I read this book called Insight Into It. It was all into it and how amazing they were. And then I read this article about a guy who did direct marketing who worked it into it who basically one year he decided to have all the vendors competing against him and he lost as a direct marketing person. That first year that first time out. And then he took everything that he learned from all those other direct marketing vendors and then he’d be every single one of them hands down the next direct marketing effort that he did. I thought wow that’s an amazing culture. That’s a culture of learning that’s the culture of taking advantage of an opportunity and making is that you become better and your skills become better and you’re actually able to experiment and make the experience better. And it’s one of those things that I sought after. So there was this merger of going into visual sciences and then when undriveable when he came up for into it actually jumped on that is because that possibly.

[00:17:13] So you I guess where I was where I was going though is that it seems like somebody could listen and say yep I’m not there I don’t I don’t love my boss boss’s boss board. I

[00:17:25] don’t the founders that run the company were even bought and sold. I need to get out.

[00:17:28] I feel like there’s still some well you can look at it and think yeah you’re right. I mean that’s sort of a it’s not a panacea but it is it is a reality. It’s one of those things where you have to figure out what’s right for you.

[00:17:39] Right. So is your current situation something that you can understand and you can grow your skills and at the end of the week you’ve had more good days and bad days then you should probably stick it out. Right. And if you aren’t having more good days and bad days and you should probably be a change agent and figure out how to make it so that you are and if you aren’t then and you can’t and you try changing and you try moving stuff around and maybe it’s time to look.

[00:18:05] And I think the part on top of that which maybe does come back to the way you were describing what you’re doing is that it does seem like the am I growing like that.

[00:18:13] That to me seems like a sort of the fundamental question that when I moved on after two or three years at a place it’s often because I’m doing great. I mean people are happy with what I’m doing and I’m advancing I’m getting more responsibility but I’m basically on a fairly gentle slope of a trajectory and that is to the detriment of some companies if they’re like we have sort of pigeonholed this analytics role and this is what it is. And this person is trying to push themselves and they’re just getting beaten down. That’s one thing. I mean I’d always want to put the accountability on the employee to say you have got to really try. You’ve got to put your all in to make it right for you. But it sounds like Intuit is very right for you and you’d been in the workforce for a while before you joined there so you’d had that experience to say wow this actually does feel right and better and different and you know one of the kicking around notes before the show that sort of had me realizing what I’ve said to other people as well like you know at a point when you’ve worked at a few companies then all of a sudden you do you ignore your gut. Once it burns you bad and then you’re like oh that was very informative. I’m going to pay attention to what my instincts are saying. But that goes for both changing as well as staying which I guess are two sides of the same coin.

[00:19:40] So you wouldn’t advocate the use of data here. TIM WILSON Just go with your gut.

[00:19:44] Well put.

[00:19:48] I think I think the learning comes from saying my gut says this now why can I quantify why that is.

[00:19:54] See I I had to build up a bunch of data points going to leaving companies going to to figure out some of those things. Well so did my adult life. But the thing is a lot of the things you know there’s a lot of pressure on people in our industry to to advance I think. And I don’t know. You know Dylan if you’ve seen this but I know that because of the way our industry is needful for talent you see a lot of title inflation out there in the market place and so people feel a pressure hey while I’ve been on a school for five years I should be a Director of Analytics at some agency by now because I see that’s the title of some of my friends have. Yeah I try to tell people now I was in the same boat as them before but that’s not really going to help make you feel better.

[00:20:45] Well if your paycheck keeps going up that might help some people that yeah one of those things that you have to look at and go. So my paycheck is going up but it isn’t really the thing that I want to be getting up and doing every day. You know you’re only here for so long and when you are here you want to be able to get up and actually enjoy what you’re doing. And that’s one of the things that I think that people don’t think about that much. They’re jumping from one to the next.

[00:21:08] Yeah. Well it’s tough. I mean and also sometimes when you face tough times this is sort of going back a little bit but I’ve found that there’s been people in my life that have kind of helped give me context or give me perspective. I don’t know if you’ve had people will. You’re welcome. You’re welcome Michael.

[00:21:25] Yeah you know what. Legit you could be one of those people someday. I was thinking like Chris Grant. But yeah sure.

[00:21:36] I mean you’re put into personal mourning directors. Absolutely yeah.

[00:21:41] I mean that’s that’s something that I made sure that that I haven’t and I have people and friends that I have that I can’t reach out to when I’m thinking about things. No I don’t want to go down this path of this path in which the future career looks like and I have those conversations with those people. And you know it all comes back to what it is that you want to accomplish. Do you want to be the CIO or do you want to be the person who’s finding the new puzzles or what is it that really fuels your growth that we pray.

[00:22:05] So given that into it. Great great fit for you. Great place to work. How much. What’s the balance between how much you have said I’ve realized something else that I’m interested in or that I want to do and try out.

[00:22:21] And you’ve guided your career versus how much has it been oh there’s this other role and let me go to it. Does that question make sense.

[00:22:31] It is I think it’s how much of Iven self directive and what it is that I’m doing versus just taking advantage about what’s going on in the environment. Yeah it’s a little of both. I think there’s things that certainly you don’t like passion and so I try to go and do those things more often than things that don’t feel my passion. But I realize that it’s a business. And we have to do some of the work that it isn’t what it is that we want to do sometimes. But I find myself in a position where I get to do a lot of the stuff that I really like to do and people like it when you do things and you’re passionate about it. So that’s where I ended up. And that’s where you know this week is going to be spent doing a lot of that last week was spent doing a lot of that too. And so I look at it and I do self reflection. You know I keep score of how my week when and how my day went and figure out what I could do better every single time. And I think about that and I try and figure out well how they can be different than yesterday. What is it that I want to do today. It’s going to make today more productive than than yesterday could have been How explicit is that.

[00:23:26] You’re not literally talking on a spreadsheet somewhere that you gave Monday 7:00 and Tuesday was the date.

[00:23:34] I don’t know. Oh he’s got a personal board of directors.

[00:23:36] So no I don’t do it quite to that level but you know I’m not I’m not trying to put you on spot.

[00:23:42] I’m curious whether that’s a fact. I mean yeah that’s the sort of thing a peek absolutely would do.

[00:23:47] I know people who do do that and I know managers that every single staff meeting they say. All right. So what’s your happiness and what your stress level. And then they plot that out over the entire year and they look at where it was at and when it was down and they put in commentary for that to try to make it so they can manage better. That’s a bit excessive for me. So I don’t quite do that but I do you know I do reflect on Saturday or on Sunday about what happened last week and try and figure out Well how do I make this week better. I learned from what happened last week and that help me dissatisfaction. And so it’s how do you how do you make it so that you’re always getting better and you’re always moving forward whenever you can.

[00:24:22] Now it seems like an interesting take me from if somebody says Wow I have thought about this for 12 straight Saturdays and I keep coming up with damn there’s nothing I can do to make it better except hope that person x or company culture y you know changes. It’s hard to change culture is not going to change because while some will say it’s impossible to change so but I think that I think there’s the piece of that of saying it would force you to say I’m just trying to remove responsibility for myself. Versus is this really something that I cannot change.

[00:24:58] And it’s a problem if it if it persists. So there’s a whole lot of introspection. It seems like that’s required there. Why don’t you start talking about analytics when talking about career for the entire time.

[00:25:10] What’s the coolest analysis you’ve done in the last 11 years. I mean do you even do analysis anymore you personally are you you’re just a boss now.

[00:25:20] No I do analysis. I work with the two different teams and the process teams trying to figure out how to make it so they they’re both as productive as possible is probably the coolest analysis that I do right now. But I think the other day that I get to do is hey we’ve got all these customers that are coming in. How do we help them complete as fast and as as happily as possible. And that’s one of the things that I really love about my job is that you know I get to help customers to get help experienced teams make better experiences by giving the tools that they need to be able to run experiments and that’s that’s one of those things that they watching teams that learn about how to make their experiences different than what it is and they started out on is actually pretty cool analysis.

[00:26:01] All right well let’s switch gears here and talk about when you do get that call from a recruiter did you talk to him. Do you want to do a chat with him.

[00:26:12] Of course. Yeah. Why wouldn’t you just to get free plane tickets across the country not knowing how that’s going on the interview. That’s the guy in Atlanta here is really good careers. Hey listen I think we should be talking based on all I’m hearing about careers right into it.

[00:26:34] And actually as I’m browsing here there’s some open positions. So I think you know some of our listeners might find that interesting.

[00:26:42] Absolutely. There are open positions. We’ve been we’ve had analytics positions open both in San Diego and in Mountain View for over a year now. And we killed lots of them but we always are looking for great talent. So if you’re interested just give me.

[00:26:57] Drop me a line at LinkedIn dot com. We’re always interested in great talent too. Yeah they look at those. I look at the record and just drop me a line. Any time you want to go east or go west. Now I like San Diego. So it’s hard it’s a hard thing and it was pretty awesome.

[00:27:13] That’s the beauty of our model though as you know most of my people are remote. So there you go.

[00:27:21] So when the recruiter calls you should say who call there to really peak you’re in San Diego.

[00:27:32] You’re really what it’s really about the company right. And so it’s about what I know about the culture of that company and what the recruiter can convey in that in that first communication. It’s all about you know how better is that place going to be versus the place I’m at. And we all take the call right. We all we all know it’s sometimes more often than I’d say no no that’s not OK.

[00:27:54] But sometimes you take the call and you figure out exactly what it is that you have versus what it is that you want and sometimes you can make that change in your own room where you work today. You have to go someplace else.

[00:28:06] Yeah but I think I don’t know if you feel this way Dylan and Tim but I feel like I’m able to sort of weed out 90 percent of what I see just based on how you approach it who it is and who the company is.

[00:28:19] So that’s the culture you can get right there. So you can just you can just sort of you get your name wrong or they they’ve missed misspellings throughout or they know approaching you a little stronger than you absolutely.

[00:28:31] Well and even how the people write job descriptions you know like oh this is a very important director level role where you’re gonna sit in a corner and be in charge of our Adobe analytics implementation you’re like seems weird to me.

[00:28:44] You know the job description says that in a corner is a fantasy. Sometimes you get three in the line but no there’s there’s ways to kind of figure it out. I guess that’s what I’m saying. You can kind of yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:59] But I think that’s the same. I have gone deep in interview processes and turned down jobs and I wasn’t going in just so I could interview and turn down the job. Those are as valuable as the work experience to say. This seems like it meets the criteria that I had or it addresses the frustrations that I had. Yet I’m not feeling great about this. And I’m I have been very diligent when that has happened to say you know why. What is it about that oh well this is this this job offer comes with a contingency that Adobe implementation certified inside 9 months. Not scared about getting that. But why is that like a contingency in the in the offer you know and that there were things that I’d say.

[00:29:53] Now why why is it important that company and why is that not how I’m been operating right. Right. So that’s one of the things you have to suss out. You have to figure out as you’re going through that process is this. Why is it that they’re making that the most important thing versus you and what you can bring to the table and why is it that they have that particular recommendation or that particular requirement for that position. And even when you’re looking at roles inside your own company you have to look at what’s the situation there that you’re going to try and figure out exactly if that’s the right place for you to be. You know I think we’ve got a we’ve got a network amongst us that most people who are contacting us we can probably contact somebody else to find out more about that company. And so it’s one of those things like hey what’s the what’s the culture really like there what does the analyst really do there on a day to day basis. And one of us can probably figure out pretty quickly whether or not that’s the right place for us. And I think that’s that’s something that you can’t put a price tag on and that’s part of the reason why you have that personal board of directors so you can say look I got this opportunity is coming up and it’s one of those things that’s it’s interesting to me.

[00:30:58] So let’s talk through what it is that it might mean for us and I think that you know getting in on the metrics conferencing early on it has allowed me to actually have those relationships with other industry experts like you guys and other people. Jim Stern Eric Peterson you know that the gamut of people to make it so that you can feel comfortable reaching out to them and saying hey there’s this thing going on here. What’s it really like and really sussing out how true that opportunity might be. There’s no shortage of that.

[00:31:26] So do the two the personal board of directors get.

[00:31:30] Do they have stock in Dylan Lewis.

[00:31:32] No. OK I buy them drinks when I see them at the at the Matrix lobby.

[00:31:38] So maybe I certainly had clients that I’ve talked to people I’ve come to like this is this is the first Christmas I’ve gotten to go to in three years or I’ve got to pick which one conference to go to.

[00:31:50] And definitely here there the the totally boneheaded managers that are like we don’t want to send you to conferences because you might find you might get a job you might make a contact can get a job and of course the you know the obvious is the that’s so ridiculously short term thinking that’s that’s not good on the company but so into it’s one of those company that’s great.

[00:32:12] You want to learn from so. So I’m definitely that’s part of it right. And so we’re doing some pretty amazing things pretty innovative. So that’s part of it. So I get invited to speak at different places. That’s one component of it. The other piece is that you know all go and be the emcee for a room that metrics.

[00:32:29] If I can get a free ticket right. And so I look for opportunities like that because I know that that’s actually how I’m going to learn. And so I look for look for places where I can go and do that yeah I may have to lead the conversation and quick summit or I may you know lead a conversation that was exchange or something like that. But I get a lot out of being there and I learn a lot about how the industry is changing by talking to this company. So I make it a priority for me to go and learn as much as I possibly can.

[00:32:56] But you have the you have the support of because you’ve made it a priority for you. It’s not a dream. This is the third conference you’ve gone to this year. I mean you’ve got whatever the mechanism is that’s a priority for you. It’s kind of on your goals and therefore you get that support which I think is a. I think there are analysts who haven’t. They don’t have that support.

[00:33:19] I guess it’s half right. I mean you’re if you’re not used to public speaking and I get nervous every single time I got nervous before this before this Vikash. And it’s not something that I imagined that most of you guys do a little bit too right. You get the urge to before you come on not just pockets anymore.

[00:33:35] You’ve done it so many times probably you can tell her Melanotan at this point.

[00:33:40] Yeah we just we just kept that we kept the bar low from the get go and we thought that’s all we got to clear and we got a whole bunch of Dillan we’ll be letting us know how this this last one sucked too.

[00:33:50] So if you actually get it right it’s one of those things that you got to push yourself right.

[00:33:57] And so what is it that you’re going to you’re going to do. And I had a manager very early on it at Intuit and even before that said look you need to grow and you need to go and do this you need to go in and be a speaker you can go and talk about what it is that we’re doing so that we can get better. And so I got that question. Asso got no conference money taken away and so it’s like how do you get to go to conferences for free. Well you don’t speak right. And so you’ve got to figure out how to compel him to create a compelling presentation. You have got to convince the conference organizers that it’s going to be worthwhile for them to put you on stage. Then you have to deliver a convincing presentation that talks about what it is you’re really doing and be able to answer questions and to be able to talk about it afterwards.

[00:34:37] And so you sort of have to think about what that’s going to be and you have to put a lot of effort into it. And that’s one of the things that that is paid off and dividends like you wouldn’t believe and I would encourage anybody who’s listening to go and do that once or twice to really try and figure out exactly how to put together a compelling story and actually get the feedback from you you’re not getting in your company and get the feedback from an audience of electrics or some other place right.

[00:34:59] Finding a way to go where you don’t have to speak. I mean it can be tougher but there are definitely companies. I mean there is in Columbus there’s I know of one retailer and I’m sure there are others and I know of one major bank and they are just like you’re not going to go share our secret sauce which is a little bit of a red flag. I would think if you’re an analyst and saying I’ve got to find some way to this is a space that is evolving quickly I have to grow my network and my knowledge and my exposure and have to be efficient about that and recognize I can’t just spend oodles of the company’s money you know going to every conference there been people that we’ve wanted to talk to have at conferences or even get on here who are like Yeah I can’t I can’t I can’t show up and talk about the company at all which is very annoying.

[00:35:50] I mean what’s really secret. Right. I mean you go to metrics and you’ve got four frameworks and it’s not everybody’s doing it’s slightly different. It’s a really great opportunity to understand how people think through problems. It’s really you know every business is quite different. The only thing you worry about is if your competitor going to be listening and if your competitors are listening than you you would tailor appropriately right.

[00:36:09] You’re not given you’re not usually giving price points right. I mean that’s the thing is it. To me it is just so horrendously shortsighted because even even if you say this is exactly what we’re doing and giving the perfect you’re giving somebody the perfect formula while they still have to go and apply the formula and they have different people on different processes for taking their business is a little different.

[00:36:31] So I am not defending it at all but that almost seems like one of those questions from a if if you were leaving to go somewhere else I could see that being absolutely one of the questions that you’re asking the company of like hey I’ve been out you know speaking and involved and engaged and it’s helped my career. Is that going to be supported in making sure they’re not kind of trying to duck and weave on what the on answering that question.

[00:36:59] Yeah I mean you guys are both companies where you probably had that conversation before you signed the signed the contract and saying hey look I’m out there I’m doing stuff. Is that okay. Is that going to be still supportive when I go here. And that’s one of the things that you have to look for if that’s something that’s really important to you have you get your list your short list right. Remember June Dershowitz talking about her list of things that she wanted to have with her next company and she wrote about in the post a note and put them on to put them on the wall and found symphonic and fulfilled all those things. Right. And you got the things that are on your short list that are on your post. No and that’s one of the things is on my post it note and hopefully if there’s something on there that’s not your current coverage and you can make it be part of your current company. I think that’s one of the things that makes it so that you’re growing your career without changing companies. You’ve got that list of things you want to accomplish and you actually are accomplishing that. Right.

[00:37:48] And if you’re not then is that you or is that the company it’s one of those questions you have to ask yourself and not be instantly looking to blame that you say it’s the company not you right. You’ve got to be pretty brutally honest with the answer to that question.

[00:38:01] And it’s challenging because obviously the path of least resistance is to not grow yourself but could a new company you have it.

[00:38:09] I don’t know if that’s the path of least resistance.

[00:38:11] I think there’s a resistance because it can feel like that because there’s so many people willing to give you another job where you don’t have to tackle the thing that’s holding you back. That is you. The company at least that’s what I’ve observed.

[00:38:26] There’s something to be said for walking in every day and no 130 faces when you’re getting a coffee right. I mean there’s there’s it’s like a small town where I work and it’s pretty amazing to know people and to feel like you’ve got a trusted network or you’ve got a network of people that are you know that feel that if you’re out for a week or something. Right. And so like oh I haven’t seen you in a while. Right. And so it’s not like Cheers.

[00:38:48] But it’s not it’s not you know it sounds like although I think I think that sometimes is a draw for people to be in the comfort zone. I’ve always been amazed at how quickly when I joined a new company how quickly I feel like I’ve established and grown. I mean I don’t think that takes a full year before you feel like you’re there. Now you don’t have the hey remember back in 0 7 when we really got hammered and you know did whatever.

[00:39:13] Well you’re right. I mean you don’t have the history when you go to another company and it’s one of those things where few people still have a history where you know five years ago we did this thing or this thing or this thing right. And so you may not have that when you get to a new company but you also that first year is to have you like knowing what it is that you’re going to be doing in a year from now is one of those things that you may not know if you jumped to a new company. And so Greg rear I know what it’s like. I know with planning seasons like and I know taxis is like it. Yeah I mean I’ll be doing the same thing but I’ll be up into it. I’ll be growing myself which is great.

[00:39:48] You’re pretty hot. You’re not planning a vacation from April 1st the 7th. Any in a year.

[00:39:53] It’s funny though. I’ve got friends who are on Facebook who said German tax or tax season haha. And they were just laughing about how this is the first and they never said they didn’t work in tax season for many years.

[00:40:06] All right. So this is really good stuff. And actually I think really helpful for a lot of our listeners who kind of run the game and across all levels of the analyst you know from junior to senior but really helpful to kind of hear some perspective so Dylan thank you very much. And as we kind of wrap up why don’t we go round one more time and if you could just pretend like you’re talking to one person one snippet of advice would you give to them as they kind of think about how of consider where they’re at now what job opportunities are in front of them. What would you say to somebody like that.

[00:40:43] You know I think what do you want to get out of where you’re at right now. What is the one thing that would make this week better than last week. What is it that you want to do for the rest of your life. Wow an interesting question and one of those things you never actually really figure out. It’s one of those things that I’ve not asked me who said what is it that you really want to get done when you are added to it and I said Well you know I want to have a family now and have a great career as an analyst. And those are two things that I was able to accomplish quite well.

[00:41:07] I was crying in the background whenever I think it’s Dylan was talking a lot of that and this is echoing kind of what you just said was knowing yourself and being clear on what what it is you’re looking to get. And I think that probably also includes recognizing when you don’t really know like you’re kind of interested in this other thing don’t want to do implementation stuff or don’t want to go more the data science route that actually can be a reason to stay at the company or add to because you could say well I can move into a role to try one thing or the other out potentially but it does seem like that thinking that just jumping to another role that has you know it’s going to have better money and is maybe going to have a better title but going in without going into the interview without being really clear on where you’re trying to head how this is the next dot on the scatter plot that’s going to be moving you in the direction you want to go. It’s kind of a just kind of a recipe for randomness and not necessarily getting you to somewhere where you are there for the long term.

[00:42:12] Yeah and I think you know early in my career I think I was focused on certain titles and certain amount of money. And I think as I’ve grown and tried I don’t know if I’m more wise but hopefully have become more wise. Those have receded and become less and less important and my own happiness and what I do and the impact that I can have has become much more critical to how I view myself and how I view my job.

[00:42:40] You are recognizing that that’s your getting to the point where you’ve got more the money.

[00:42:44] I mean just to be the cranky new person saying oh well OK if you work in analytics if you work in analytics and you can’t make good money you’re terrible and like come on like nobody is hurt you like that’s not a problem for our industry really like not degrees but it’s not like people are going well.

[00:43:11] I think that sometimes though if you if you’re hired in as a market and find yourself then doing analytics. I mean I think there are certainly way. So there’s someone trying to give a little bit of a nod to. Don’t piss off the millennials.

[00:43:25] I totally get it and I hate what I’m trying to tell the millennials is those things are important but less important than your own happiness and your own achievement in terms of what you really want to do with your life. So I guess I’m sort of just saying what Dylan said but I’m more longwinded less organized fashion so I’m going to get a post it note out and I’m going to like right on it each week. Like what could I do better this week.

[00:43:53] Well we’ll see how long that will take me to write. You can have opposed it and have Tegmark for good weeks and bad weeks or good days and bad days. You have more more bad days than good days and maybe it is time to rethink how you become a change agent. Whether it’s in your own company or in somebody else’s company or we can all become data scientists.

[00:44:13] Well if you listen to our last episode you’ll know that we’re all going to become a data scientist. Two episodes ago two episodes ago. Right. All right.

[00:44:24] Well if you’ve been listening along and obviously hearing what Dylan had to say and Tim and to lesser extent me too I guess but if that’s interesting to you we’d love to hear from you. Figuring out your career in analytics is one of the more challenging but obviously super meaningful things that you’re going to be doing with your life. So if there’s anything we can do to help you know we’re always happy to do that. Reach out to us on the measure slack or Facebook or on Twitter. And I did notice as I mentioned before yeah careers down into it dot com. There are some jobs out there. So I think if you’re listening and you like what Dylan was saying about into it you check that out.

[00:45:10] And you know there’s worse places to end up in San Diego too if you’re in Mountain View in the Bay Area.

[00:45:16] Yeah yeah. And you know Dallas says you can camp out on his porch until you find your own place. So it’s bad weather is perfect. You could just pitch a tent and it’s really great super super great.

[00:45:31] Anyway thanks so much for listening. We’d love to hear from you. And for my co host Tim Wilson. This is Michael Hublin saying keep analyzing.

[00:45:44] Thanks for listening. And don’t forget to join the conversation on Facebook or Twitter or measures like great. We welcome your comments and questions come forward slash analytics or analytics on Twitter. Smart guys want to admit it’s a made up.

[00:46:04] Word. I was explaining to some of my coworkers that I was going to be on this and they’re like real power. I said well our hours didn’t last the whole hour and they kind of laughed like a real power are like you get what they need. You can have 60 shots what are you going to do. And I was like oh no it’s not like that at all.

[00:46:27] Well yeah. TIM Fishley came up with the power our name I believe. You just like rip that out and like it is a placeholder. And then we just didn’t get better. Katz I’ve always thought it was terrible. We all thought it was terrible but we couldn’t get any better. Well we own it now. So what are you going to do if. You guys say Here comes out. What’s that all about. Because that’s how the audio reaches my brain. I do it so it’s isolating the input from the output that you what you said that’s on the more professional. Well I mean I’ve got everything in Bitcoin now. So good I’m one of those guys you know pepper you know both Tim and I have no idea. I mean I keep all my bitcoins under my mattress. He said he’s a prep for the growing rabbit. Flip flopper wrapper. That’s right. And. Here will be 226 episodes. You can get them back hope hopefully. Yeah if you can’t. What are you doing. Maybe that’s why you’re still at it. If not I can go to search discovery dot com slash career. I love that you give a shout out every every time. Nicely done. Carry on. Get Peterson job history timeline down there to Wilson. Well there’s a joke in there somewhere. Yes. We’re going to start out.

[00:48:17] Anyway. Do you really want to talk about. No. That’s OK. My kids have been screaming and the this form of. Rock flag and staying at one company.


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